March 21, 2008

Crazy Preachers

Bitch PhD makes a list of some of the White, and from the Right, nuttiness in order to point out the double standard:

Kotsko sums it up:

white preachers obviously believe all kinds of crazy things -- for instance, that political events in the Middle East should be manipulated so as to conform to some kind of magical heavenly code that will set off the end of the world

Not to mention that Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans, that America is "no different" than Nazi Germany, that we should rewrite the Constitution to "god's standards", that America deserved 9/11.

And no, the powerful white fundamentalist nutjobs are not marginal figures: Bush, McCain, and Reagan all had close ties with him. Bush has been more than happy to give federal jobs to graduates of Pat Robertson's law school (see also here. McCain, as we all know, actively courted Hagee's endorsement.

Posted by binky at March 21, 2008 09:38 AM | TrackBack | Posted to El Infierno de kansas | Extremism | Politics | Religion


Comments

Yeah, this stuff is one of the 2 sides of the Wright story that are driving me around the bend, during those few moments I can take considering that the Wright stuff is considered national news. How exactly is his stuff in any way worse than preachers McCain kow-tows to? And actually isn't McCain's worse since he's obviously doing it for political reasons, and Obama was, mostly, sitting in church. And just how many Christians don't disagree with something said by the man or woman behind the pulpit?

But yeah, the real worry is who's going to be granted power. Wright won't be. Robertson and Falwell groupies on the other hand have it and are going to expect to keep it under McCain.

Posted by: Armand at March 21, 2008 11:15 AM | PERMALINK

Double standard? It's only a double standard if the sides are treated differently. Every time Fallwell or Pat Robertson says something like this, they make headlines. Reagan's association with Fallwell and the Moral Majority drew fire during his Presidency. So the only way this would be a double standard is if (as you appear to want) there was a media code of silence when it comes to Democrats associated with nutty preachers. Either it doesn't matter when Republicans do it (if so, why did bloodless blog about them saying New Orleans deserved Katrina?), or it matters when Democrats do it, if fairness is, in fact, what you're seeking.

Posted by: Morris at March 21, 2008 11:44 AM | PERMALINK

No, there is a double standard b/c McCain is NOT being as closely associated with the words of Dobson, Falwell, Hagee and Robertson in anything like the same way Obama is being blamed for Wright's language. This has been the #1 political story in the country for days and days and days. The press hasn't done any similar push on McCain and Hagee or McCain and Falwell.

And while the press might occasionally do a little story on Pat Robertson and hurricanes they really haven't done much at all on the rather remarkable level of access these people have in the Bush White House, or their say over, for example, major judicial nominees (well, excepting one instance - Ms. Miers - but even there they were just treated as one part of "the base").

Posted by: Armand at March 21, 2008 12:52 PM | PERMALINK

Point 1:
The factor that distinguished the Obama/Wright thing from the evangelical/Conservative thing is the type and closeness of the relationship. Obama and his preacher appear to have a close and personal relationship, so I would expect that they influence each other's ideas. On the other side, though, the evangelical/conservative relationship is one of composition - evangelicals are an important part of the conservative movement and the conservative movement encompasses most evangelicals. Which is scarier?

Point 2:
a. Historically, racism is a part of US politics and culture - an empirical fact
b. To understand anti-US terrorism requires understanding US foreign policy in the Middle East - this is cause and effect, not blame.
c. God punishes innocent people (even devout Christians) because some people are born or choose to be gay? That's the god of the old testament.
d. Jerry Falwell is dead. :)

Posted by: Anon at March 21, 2008 02:06 PM | PERMALINK

Though of course a great deal of the Republican establishment would vigorously disagree with your point 2b (because apparently nothing the US does - war, torture, funding someone's enemies, whatever - could possibly have negative effects on someone else's interests, or be bad for anyone in anyway, ever).

Posted by: Armand at March 21, 2008 02:33 PM | PERMALINK

reply to: Armand at March 21, 2008 02:33 PM

Which goes directly back to the composition argument in Point #1. According to those in the conservative movement who are also evangelical, any disaster the US suffers (9-11, Katrina, and maybe traffic snarls at Spruce and Pleasant) isn't an outcome of FOREIGN policy or of nature, it's our almighty and benevolent God acting through others and natural events to punish us for our DOMESTIC policy (civil liberties, gay rights, freedom of expression, abortion, social equality, etc). In other words, its our "fault" b/c we allow/promote a lifestyle that doesn't always jive with their beliefs. (BTW, this line of thinking - put forth by the conservovangelists - also implies that the Christian God has allied himself with the evil Muslims to deliver his punishment. Hmmm - isn't that relationship covered in the Bible somewhere?)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A28620-2001Sep14

Posted by: Anon at March 21, 2008 04:03 PM | PERMALINK

But how different is Obama's minister's assessment of US foreign policy from that of the Islamofacists? I can believe Obama when he says he'll listen to Iran and Syria because, like the Rev. Wright, they believe that the US supports terrorism against the Palestinians and that the US deserved 9/11 through this support of Israel against the Palestinians. So anyone with a tender heart toward Israel and Jews would have to wonder at what point Obama would label Islamofacists just a few controversial, strong critics of US foreign policy like Rev. Wright. If he tolerates and participates in and donates to the church of someone who preaches the same thing as Iran and Syrian revolutionaries, how far is he from donating to Hezbollah? After all, he did miss the vote on whether to label them a terrorist organization.

Posted by: Morris at March 22, 2008 10:32 AM | PERMALINK

What on Earth are you talking about?

1) Who gives a fuck about Obama's minister's assessment of foreign policy? Is there any evidence whatsoever that Wright would have any role in an Obama administration? No - quite the opposite in fact.

2) And since when does talking to a country suggest agreeing with it in any way? We currently do way more than talk to China - are you suggesting that George Bush therefore supports forced labor camps, authoritarianism, the torture and killing of ethnic minorities, and the rape of Tibet? What about when Ronald Reagan was personally overseeing - and publicly defending - selling arms to Khomenei. Was that a sign that Reagan wanted Israel's destruction?

And Obama isn't doing anything remotely on the scale of pushing US investment into the PRC or arming Iran. He's simply saying we should talk to them. We talk to you - that doesn't mean we agree with anything about your politics.

Obama has said (many, many times) that he supports Israel and will work hard to maintain a close relationship between the countries, one that ensures the security and prosperity of both.

Why you choose to ignore his own statements and infer that Obama is really Wright (who last I checked wasn't a Shiite cleric) - and from that somehow say he is on the verge of funding Hezbollah ... well "makin' shit up" hardly seems to qualify as a description of this argument.

Posted by: Armand at March 22, 2008 02:10 PM | PERMALINK

And since when does talking to a country suggest agreeing with it in any way?

Just for the record, we (the US) talk to everybody. It may not make the news, but governments do keep communicating, even with "the bad guys."

Posted by: binky at March 22, 2008 02:15 PM | PERMALINK
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